"Andy Warhol said, 'Everyone can be famous for 15 minutes.' Discovering Titanic is our 15 minutes." April 2012, British Paul Hart (Paul Dudley Hart) told Southern Weekend reporters in Beijing.
In the 1980s, Hart worked at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, where exploring the deep sea was part of their job. At that time, they had a small manned submarine that could dive to a depth of nearly 5,000 meters. "That was the most expensive elevator in the world." Hart's job at the time was to get up every morning and enter the submarine, reach the bottom of the sea in two and a half hours, wander around for two hours, and return to the surface in the evening. They want to do something exciting to prove how awesome these technologies are.
A colleague of Hart said: "Let's find the Titanic!" They searched 13 times but failed. In September 1985, they finally discovered the Titanic with a French marine research agency at a depth of more than 4,000 meters.
"It has been nearly 75 years since Titanic sank. It is so legendary. It was so exciting. We attracted media from all over the world, proved our technology, and made everyone realize how exciting deep-sea exploration is." Hart Since then, he has been engaged in various expeditions, living in Antarctica for more than 90 months, traveling around the world, and appearing in places such as Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Cambodia, and Vietnam.
In 2002, retired Hart embarked on a new adventure - joining the non-profit organization Mercy Corps International. Mercy Corps, founded in 1979, is an international relief and development organization. It works primarily in areas affected by disaster, war, persistent poverty and instability. In the late 1990s, Mercy Corps came to China at the invitation of the China Foundation for Poverty Alleviation.
In addition to initially helping to establish a microfinance system in China's poor areas, Mercy Corps' projects also cover many other areas, such as psychosocial rehabilitation after the Wenchuan earthquake, and helping to build a community in extreme poverty caused by migrant populations and AIDS. Poor rural areas, etc.
Now Hart is the senior vice president of Mercy Corps International. He is exploring how to carry out NGO (Non-Governmental Organization) activities in China like he is exploring the seabed.
"There are indeed one or two NGOs that go too far and involve politics or religion. But this sensitivity has been amplified. If you do your job, insist on working with local people, and with the Chinese If we cooperate instead of replacing the Chinese, there will be no problems.”
“There are actually no treasures on the Titanic”
Southern Weekend: The well-known discoverer of the Titanic is Robert. Ballard, what is your role in the exploration process?
Hart: Raised funds to advance technology and help form the Ocean Exploration Center - Titanic's discovery team. When I found out, I took on a role dealing with media around the world. Information from the media is in high demand. We are a large scientific research institution, and the media usually does not have much interest in science and technology, but it is completely different with Titanic. We need to deal with the tsunami of media waves, which is very tiring. I'm going to keep explaining why we're doing this and what we're going to do next. People think we are here to make money, but we are not. We rely on government funding.
We declare that everything we find belongs to the public and will not be used to make money. Another statement is that we are not taking anything from the ship. It is a grave and should be treated with the respect that a burial ground deserves. It has no historical value to us and can only be used as a souvenir. Taking it away is no different from tomb robbing. Many ancient tombs around the world have been robbed, and we wanted to set a precedent for tombs under the sea - to give them peace. When we dived for the last time, we left a notice on the boat: Those who follow us, please come with us and do not disturb their sleep.
Southern Weekend: Did the notices work?
Hart: Two years later we took a submarine to the wreckage and stretched out a small mechanical submarine to detect it. It was very exciting, and although there were many bottles and plates left on the boat, no one touched anything. Unfortunately, commercial explorers came here and took things from the ships to sell. We were so saddened that we went to the U.S. Congress to ask for help, using this as a counterexample to legislate against the profiteering of items looted from the Titanic. The least we can do is stop someone from making money in the United States using looted items. Of course, the Titanic is a British ship, not an American one.
Southern Weekend: Are there any treasures on Titanic?
Hart: Actually, there are no treasures. Passengers will take any valuables with them or wear them. Even if there are scattered jewels, they may drift to other places along with the ocean currents. It is a big mistake for treasure hunters to imagine that the wreckage is full of treasures. But the worthless things were also taken away, plates, wine bottles and so on.
Southern Weekend: You have been engaged in undersea exploration. Why did you join an NGO like Mercy Corps?
Hart: I joined Mercy Corps ten years ago. I found myself retired, even though I was still so young. I started providing free consulting to several NGOs, Mercy Corps being one of them. After a few months, when they saw how hard I worked, they said you might as well come here and work. I became a member of Mercy Corps’ senior management team. As for the reason, we are consuming the world's resources and must learn to take global responsibility. There are humanitarian reasons and pragmatic reasons. Poverty leads to instability, which affects the least developed regions and is also a threat to the security of developed countries.
Therefore, for the sake of humanitarian and realistic legitimacy, a more peaceful world needs to be built.
Mercy Corps Senior Vice President Hart was once a deep-sea explorer. Now he is exploring how to carry out NGO activities in China like he is exploring the bottom of the sea. (Provided by interviewee/picture)
“Before speaking, you have to learn to listen”
Southern Weekend: How do you evaluate the relationship between Mercy Corps and the Chinese government?
Hart: Very positive, we can often see the sincerity of the government. China is powerful now, but of course there are many controversies. But it is undeniable that as China's economy plays a more important role in the world, the influence of Chinese NGOs will also grow. China brings a lot of potential, knowledge and resources, and we are eager to build a partnership with China.
Southern Weekend: Has anyone asked you why you came here and what is your special purpose?
Hart: Of course. That’s okay, we are transparent in all our work. The most critical and simplest answer is: we were invited by the Foundation for Poverty Alleviation, the All-China Youth Federation or other organizations. Because we can help China’s public welfare undertakings. As a rapidly developing emerging power, China will play an increasingly important role in international development. We have a lot of experience in public welfare, international development, etc., and have gone through many detours. This is what we can bring to China.
Southern Weekend: There is a kind of "strategic distrust" between China and the United States. Many observers will regard many US activities in China as "peaceful evolution", while Western NGOs or other international organizations is part of this strategy. Do you feel similar emotions?
Hart: Often. But I have to say that I also felt welcomed and supported in many meetings. Our work is very low-key and unobtrusive, we are just helping our Chinese counterparts.
People in all countries will have xenophobia and people will always have distrust of foreign cultures. American observers will also say that China’s foreign aid is only for oil or minerals. This is exactly what we need to do to build trust and dialogue. We all hope for an open market and a stable global environment. This is the best option for everyone.
Southern Weekend: If friends from other NGOs asked you about "how to gain mutual trust with the Chinese government," what would you say?
Hart: Listen. Before you speak, before you plan, you have to learn to listen. There are indeed one or two NGOs that go too far and involve politics or religion. But this sensitivity is amplified. If you do your job, insist on working with the locals, and cooperate with the Chinese instead of replacing the Chinese, there will be no problem. You need to respect Chinese culture, China has its own unique culture and way of doing things.
Southern Weekend: What do you mean by "China's unique culture"?
Hart: For example, the main motivation for most Chinese people to do things is collective interests before individuals. I think this is the main difference and a profound cultural difference. For example, in the United States, the individual is primary. None are necessarily bad, just different.
Another related difference is the way decisions are made. The Chinese government can start immediately by formulating policy requirements. Once decided, implement it directly. There may be discussions before a decision is made, but once it is implemented, the entire country must follow. In the West, policies change according to the political context, but in China this is an ongoing process.
China is constructing self-identity, while in the West, we often deconstruct ourselves. To many Westerners, China's policy-making process is too mysterious. China may have held thousands of meetings before making a decision, but foreigners cannot understand it at all.
“Citizens are the best spokespersons”
Southern Weekend: How do you evaluate China’s international development?
Hart: I think China has been playing a very beneficial role in many underdeveloped countries.
Southern Weekend: You mean in Africa?
Hart: Africa, Central Asia, many areas. China invests in infrastructure construction and also extracts resources. Well done. If I could make some suggestions for China to play a better role, I would say that China should consider more social dimensions in its future international development, such as increasing humanitarian aid. It is also a good idea to form a large-scale Chinese volunteer organization, because citizens are the best spokespersons.
Now that China plays a major international role, I think it is good for China to send more volunteers to other regions. Live there, learn the language and understand the culture there, so that you can cooperate harmoniously with the locals and promote local development. In turn, these will feed back China's global interests at the diplomatic, social, and trade levels.
Southern Weekend: In this process, what can international NGOs do for China’s international development?
Hart: Chinese NGOs can become strong and appropriate partners for China’s overseas trade by establishing social networks, such as absorbing labor and providing jobs. There is nothing worse than teaching young people job skills but not giving them job opportunities, which only creates instability. China has done very well in infrastructure construction, developing local finance, and mining minerals and oil. In addition, it needs to be extended to the social dimension. China should share more benefits with local society.
Southern Weekend: What are your expectations for Mercy Corps’ cooperation with China? Any plans?
Hart: We have many plans, but these should be announced and discussed by our Chinese partners. We are just guests. We have discussed with several Chinese NGOs to help them conduct training for international project establishment. We did not make these matters completely public, but also to show respect for our Chinese partners. We have always allowed our Chinese partners to take the initiative in local promotion.
Kissinger is undoubtedly far-sighted on the China issue. He said that if there is trade, there will be no war. Our work in the humanitarian field is the first step - preparing the soil so that trade and peace are possible. So let's cultivate the soil together. Why do everyone do their own thing? At least cooperate and communicate, not just today.
Southern Weekend: Do you have any specific suggestions on how Chinese volunteers should work?
Hart: I have no other suggestions. For example, farming. The people who know the most about farming in the world must be farmers. He may not have the technology or fertilizer, but he must know what must be done. Local people are the planners of solutions and hold the key to solving problems. But usually they have ideas but don’t have the conditions to realize them. Our mission is to provide them with implementation methods, funds, and technical support.
Southern Weekend: Staying away from politics and religion should be a particularly necessary experience, right?
Hart: We have worked in Somalia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. In Afghanistan, we worked on the ground before and after the Taliban rule without interruption because every one of our projects was of value to the authorities. It is important to note that this does not mean that we support the Taliban or the rulers before or after. But we have the knowledge to meet social needs. This is not a political issue, but a social issue.